DUST Search - To CCP and the community, consider the following. Civil discussion p...

The Infected One wrote:

The toxic nature of this community is one of the main reasons I stopped reading the forums in the first place.
Get a group of short bus riding window lickers in a room and **** one of them off, and the rest start crying just as hard.
1.8 brings changes to the game, some good, some not so good. We will have to adapt (As we always do) and continue on (As we always do) regardless of what happens.

I've made MANY actual constructive and to the best of my ability non biased ideas regarding full light weapon balance, and people start with constructive thoughts and reasoning. Then as soon as one window licker gets up in arms calling something totally OP and saying that it should be nerfed into the ground, the whole concept of a civil discussion is thrown out the window.

You want balance to the rifles, here, again. (This is based on 1.8 damage specs based on the fact that the rifles are now doing roughly the same DPS, except the Gal Plasma rifle, it shouldn't have been nerfed as it was the worst of all the rifles since we got the new ones)

RR: Long range king, higher hip-fire dispersion (This stops it from being both amazing at its intended long range role, as well as being great in close quarters)

SCR: High alpha, medium to long range, medium hip-fire dispersion (overheat and semi auto fire prevent this weapon from becoming king outside its intended range, can contend with CR inside medium range and not totally UP against RR while still inside its optimal)

CR: High rate of fire, short to medium range, small hip-fire dispersion (Burst fire prevents this weapon from becoming king outside its intended ranges, can contend with SCR inside medium range and not totally UP against Plasma rifle inside its optimal)

AR (Gal plasma rifle): Higher single shot damage (Than it currently has), medium rate of fire, short range, very accurate hip-fire, fully auto (Short range prevents this weapon from becoming king at longer ranges, and brings it back to its intended role of being the CQC rifle of choice)

Finally Remove the assault variants of all other weapons, because they all outshine the others intended roles.
The Plasma rifle is currently the most UP rifle that we have (I got called a proto using scrub last night for using the Aloteck burst AR and the Creodron Breach AR LOL).

The ASCR out performs the Plasma rifle in CQC because its full auto and has a higher fire rate, damage, larger magazine, range, standard level reload speed and the overheat on the ASCR is negligible unless you are firing again right after a reload (Which still gets you another half magazine without running it on an Aamar assault suit)

The ACR out performs the ASCR and Plasma rifle in CQC because it is also full auto, with roughly the same magazine size, higher fire rate, standard level reload speed, and more balanced shield/armor damage profile.

The ARR out performs all of the above with respect to being slightly evenly matched with the ACR in CQC because of the fire rate, damage output per shot landed, standard level reload speed, and most importantly the fact that its optimal range still doesn't change that much from the standard variant.

I know its our sandbox and we can use whatever we want in whatever way, but the assault variants of each weapon just add to this game being broken. If we removed the assault variants of each of these, we would have the specialized niche weapons that CCP had originally intended when we only had the Gal AR and its variants as what were supposed to be Place holders until we got the other racial weapons, and no one weapon would out shine another inside its respective optimal range.

Yes that would make less weapons to chose from in the rifle category, but you don't really see much in the way of variants of the shotgun, MD (Could stand to have the breach and assault versions removed), PLC, Forge and HMG (Because no other racial heavy weapons, thus the Place holders), and they do fine in their niche and we are getting the racial side arms in 1.8 which adds to variety in play style already.


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Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1743	Posted - 2014.03.07 15:50:00 - [1] - Quote The Infected One wrote: The toxic nature of this community is one of the main reasons I stopped reading the forums in the first place. Get a group of short bus riding window lickers in a room and ** one of them off, and the rest start crying just as hard. 1.8 brings changes to the game, some good, some not so good. We will have to adapt (As we always do) and continue on (As we always do) regardless of what happens. I've made MANY actual constructive and to the best of my ability non biased ideas regarding full light weapon balance, and people start with constructive thoughts and reasoning. Then as soon as one window licker gets up in arms calling something totally OP and saying that it should be nerfed into the ground, the whole concept of a civil discussion is thrown out the window. You want balance to the rifles, here, again. (This is based on 1.8 damage specs based on the fact that the rifles are now doing roughly the same DPS, except the Gal Plasma rifle, it shouldn't have been nerfed as it was the worst of all the rifles since we got the new ones) RR: Long range king, higher hip-fire dispersion (This stops it from being both amazing at its intended long range role, as well as being great in close quarters) SCR: High alpha, medium to long range, medium hip-fire dispersion (overheat and semi auto fire prevent this weapon from becoming king outside its intended range, can contend with CR inside medium range and not totally UP against RR while still inside its optimal) CR: High rate of fire, short to medium range, small hip-fire dispersion (Burst fire prevents this weapon from becoming king outside its intended ranges, can contend with SCR inside medium range and not totally UP against Plasma rifle inside its optimal) AR (Gal plasma rifle): Higher single shot damage (Than it currently has), medium rate of fire, short range, very accurate hip-fire, fully auto (Short range prevents this weapon from becoming king at longer ranges, and brings it back to its intended role of being the CQC rifle of choice) Finally Remove the assault variants of all other weapons, because they all outshine the others intended roles. The Plasma rifle is currently the most UP rifle that we have (I got called a proto using scrub last night for using the Aloteck burst AR and the Creodron Breach AR LOL*). The ASCR out performs the Plasma rifle in CQC because its full auto and has a higher fire rate, damage, larger magazine, range, standard level reload speed and the overheat on the ASCR is negligible unless you are firing again right after a reload (Which still gets you another half magazine without running it on an Aamar assault suit) The ACR out performs the ASCR and Plasma rifle in CQC because it is also full auto, with roughly the same magazine size, higher fire rate, standard level reload speed, and more balanced shield/armor damage profile. The ARR out performs all of the above with respect to being slightly evenly matched with the ACR in CQC because of the fire rate, damage output per shot landed, standard level reload speed, and most importantly the fact that its optimal range still doesn't change that much from the standard variant. I know its our sandbox and we can use whatever we want in whatever way, but the assault variants of each weapon just add to this game being broken. If we removed the assault variants of each of these, we would have the specialized niche weapons that CCP had originally intended when we only had the Gal AR and its variants as what were supposed to be Place holders until we got the other racial weapons, and no one weapon would out shine another inside its respective optimal range. Yes that would make less weapons to chose from in the rifle category, but you don't really see much in the way of variants of the shotgun, MD (Could stand to have the breach and assault versions removed), PLC, Forge and HMG (Because no other racial heavy weapons, thus the Place holders), and they do fine in their niche and we are getting the racial side arms in 1.8 which adds to variety in play style already. +1 Infected One. The roles/ranges you've listed for the various longarms i'm 100% on board with. If your system was implemented we'd have balance and interesting, meaningful tactical choices to make. The one thing i do want to stress is that CCP pay careful attention to the overlap in effective* ranges which will keep engagements interesting and allow personal skill to make a difference when engagement range isn't in one's favour(e.g. Plasma rifle vs. Combat Rifle ). It's something you've already mentioned in your post but something i want to stress. It's a level of fine-tuning we simply haven't reached yet but definitely something desireable for the long run. Agreed that the auto variants muddy up the balance achived by the above, but getting rid of them completely feels like a big price to pay for achieving balance. If CCP would implement a meaningful recoil we could keep the range profiles essentially the same(actually whatever maximum %age nerf that didn't mess up the racial range profiles), lower damage, bump up dispersion and let recoil do the rest. That would be my preference - really want to keep the auto variants. I support SP rollover.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1748	Posted - 2014.03.07 17:30:00 - [2] - Quote Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote: Discussion implies two-way communication but unfortunately, there is no such thing here. CCP tells us what they're going to and nothing we say will change what they do, mostly because we don't see the changes until just before they're released and there is no time to improve those changes. In principle I agree with you TC, I'd rather people be more constructive but I understand peoples frustration too. Bittervet b*itching aside, and repeating myself and others, this is CCP's single biggest lost opportunity and also their single biggest lost synergy. Patch notes released 1-2 weeks before a patch effectively gives the community no opportunity to act as a failsafe for catching destructive changes before they make it into the game. When you couple this with how long destructive elements are left in the game(current examples: District locking, FW balance, tank spam - There are literally dozens more of varying severity), any concerns that players who have the best interests of the game at heart have regarding communications/input/patch notes are imo completely warrranted. Futhurmore, these conversation belong on the forums and only on the forums. Skype and IRC are useful and allow for different and productuve forms of communication, but in terms of interaction between CCP and the playerbase the conversation needs to be public and accessible and archived in a central location. This should be obvious to all parties concerned, it's really communications 101. Because of hours spent in-game, players are absolutely the best qualified group when it comes to finding game-breaking mechanics. This game has already paid a considerable price for ignoring that fact. As DUST's systems and complexity evolve the benefits of bouncing proposed changes off the playerbase only increases. I don't see a way around this, tbh. I support SP rollover.